Couleurs ratons burmeses

[Arkane]

il y a 3 minutes, Ancalimë a dit :

les bases (sans ajout d'autre chose) on peut vraiment pas se louper, c'est flagrant. Siamois/hima, ça change pas mal la couleur. Sur des noirs c'est facile, sur des agoutis un peu moins, mais ça va (idem, tjs sans ajout de qqc par dessus!)

 

Yep, mais alors sur des unis/irish, je pense que les bases sur des hooded ou quoi, ça doit être un peu plus chaud à déterminer. 

 

Perso j'ai effectivement déterminé siam/hima par rapport aux variations de couleurs après avoir déterminé la base, mais je suis pas certaine à 100% de mon truc ^^' 
Surtout sur le seul raton base noire que j'avais, sans pouvoir comparer je l'ai noté siamois parce qu'il est super foncé, mais si ça se trouve il l'est pas du tout... 

[Shita]

On 6/8/2019 at 8:59 PM, Rustina said:

- les biscuits 

 

wheaten biscuit (agouti burmese without points)

 

wheaten himalayan burmese vs. wheaten biscuit

wheaten biscuit (no points or shading)

 

wheaten himalayan burmese (with points)

 

wheaten siamese burmese (with points and shading)

[Shita]

I have more different shades of burmese to compare, but I've to search for the photos ^^

[Rustina]

Thank you so much, i keep your photos.

 

Merci Arkane d'avoir répondu à l'appel 

Je vois que l'experience aide beaucoup quand même et que les premieres portees peuvent être un peu perturbantes 

Le mink, havane et autre sur base agouties ou noires, ca doit donner aussi mdr

[Arkane]

il y a 21 minutes, Rustina a dit :

Thank you so much, i keep your photos.

 

Merci Arkane d'avoir répondu à l'appel 

Je vois que l'experience aide beaucoup quand même et que les premieres portees peuvent être un peu perturbantes 

Le mink, havane et autre sur base agouties ou noires, ca doit donner aussi mdr

 

Alors franchement ça va je trouve, j'pense que le pire c'est justement les combos, les portées avec mink + bleu russe ça doit être le gros WTF...

Et récemment j'ai eu RED + bleu russe, sur le beige c'était assez easy, sur le topaze j'ai plus galéré mais c'était beaucoup plus simple que je ne le pensais.

 

Effectivement l'expérience aide pas mal, mais aussi les photos des autres, et l'entraide aussi (perso j'ai demandé à Marine R2G notamment, et aux RA, et ben franchement ça m'a bien aidée ! La communauté c'est important ^^)

[Rustina]

@Shita, thank you to answer, I could use google translate tonight, I understand what you say. 

And thanks for the photos too.

 

[Shita]

I see your point of view, and I agree for the most part. For me personal: I love the standard (black-based) burmese and the russian burmese, preferable without markings. I'd like them to be siamese burmese instead of the "paler" versions (himalayan, or even without points) and I'm not the biggest fan of agouti (wheaten) burmese either, but I understand why you'd like to breed for this variety in particular.

 

More extra genes combined with burmese = less color/contrast will appear, which makes it more difficult to identify the different shades. But the main reason not to mix random colors (not only to burmese - but when you're breeding rats in general) is because you'll often loose 'strenght' and 'type'. It's easier to breed strong, robust, bulkier rats when there are less genes involved.

 

A black burmese usually will be better (= bigger, more muscular, maybe even healthier) than a diluted burmese sibling (I just took the burmese as an example)

A black rat not expressing/carrying other genes (like aaBBCCDDGGMMPPRR etc.) often will be better than a 'multi colored' sibling (like: aabbCCddggmm - a black rat expressing chocolate, russian blue, US blue, mink, etc. etc.......)

 

The chocolate-based burmese seems to be a bit of an exception. Don't get me wrong - "chocolate burmese" is not a common used term, or standarised variety in any way!

Chocolate in rats (aabb - brown locus) is a very old gene that's bred for more than 100 years; a pretty strong and robust color with no known deficiencies. The chocolate-based burmeses (like we've seen in the Netherlands) often were animals of 'high quality' as well......

I've had 3 suspected chocolate-based burmeses, likely expressing chocolate instead of carrying it. All 3 reached exceptional high ages... strong, healthy animals (in general) and absolutely gorgeous rats to look at.

 

There's possible choc- burmese in my R-litter, but it's hard to know for sure if it's 'true' chocolate burmese, or burmese carrying chocolate.

What I do know, is that the male is showing quite nice promissing type compared to his (non chocolate) burmese brothers. If I've to pick now, I'd choose type over standard/variety - even though he has white markings and his brothers are selfs... (that's why I can't get rid of the markings  )

 

I agree - if you just started breeding, or maybe consider breeding (burmese) rats, don't mix in extra unnessecary (/unwanted) genes. I'd recommend to start with selfs; preferable smooth coat and top ears only.

 

Shoot! I have to go now, or I'll be late for work..... LOL!

[Rustina]

I have always loved burmeses and BES. But I do not have one yet (burmese). It will surely be my next rats. For the moment I'm taking a break in adoptions.
Breeding this type of rat  would please me a lot! For the moment I am learning, I am looking, I am asking questions and I am taking care of my own which makes me very happy today.
It's great to be able to interact with a community like this.

 

But I do not know if you've seen, there's a topic right now that's about breeders and the difficulty of placing the kitten.
So to start a project and have no one who adopts and end up with too many rats, it becomes complicated.

Moment, I work at home on subjects on reproduction, genetics. I am waiting to move, to be better equipped.

Today, I noticed that it was difficult to work as pure a color as possible. Many rats have mixed genes, especially with PED or RED that complicate everything, I learned that the Mink also change all the colors.
So it takes work to find the "good" rats to reproduce. When we start a litter, there is enough work to go, to refine all this

 

(I hope it's understandable )

[Shita]

copied from this topic

 

 

I'd guess the 4 dark ones to be sable - but it's quite hard to know for sure since they look a lot like the dark choc burmese from my R-litter...

 

To compare, R-litter burmese (Rudolph on the right, next to him is Rajani)

 

T-litter should have some sables in it - R-litter.....not.

[Rustina]

I would say that chocolate is darker than sable. When I see Bécaria's little ones (she works chocolate), I find them very dark at this age. But I don't  know mixed with burmese, the color of the babys. It's really discreet.
And at the same time, Loulouteratoune had very dark sable too .. it must depend on genealogy.
But suddenly to be sure of yourself, it gets complicated.

 

But they are really cute

 

 

 

[Shita]

Update!

 

on the left we have Rajani, chocolate-based burmese (siamese)

on the right we have Thiri (her niece) - normal/black-based sable burmese (himalayan?)

 

Rajani is the 2nd kitten from the right on this picture - as a baby

 

Thiri is the 4th kitten from the right on this picture - as a baby

 

At this point, they aren't at their darkest, but just to show you a compare.

[Artefact]

Thank you for the valuable documentation!

[Shita]

Rajani's brother / Thiri's father - chocolate burmese (siamese)

 

on the right as a baby

 

It's impossible for him to be sable, although he won at the show, entered as sable burmese...!

[Ancalimë]

Oh! I told Fanny that her burmese was too dark regarding NFRS' guidelines ^^ That she could enter him at show under sable rather than burmese. Glad I wasn't wrong xD

[Shita]

typical Shita burmese xD I tend to select for dark pointed/shaded rats...... I can't help it <3

[Shita]

another daughter of Rudolph

[ella]

Il y a 9 heures, Shita a dit :

typical Shita burmese I tend to select for dark pointed/shaded rats...... I can't help it

Even if it's not ideal regarding the guidelines... it's part of why I like your rats so much. 

[Rustina]

Oh thank you ! I didn't get notifications ! 

[Shita]

On 6/14/2019 at 2:57 PM, Shita said:

wheaten himalayan burmese (with points)

 

Here's the same rat from above (Shita's Quarter Pounder) with his wheaten sable son:

 

 

 

 

Modifié le 14 juin 2020 par Shita

[Shita]

(pics made by Jeannette, their owner)

[Rustina]

He's pale for sable. Because he's weathen ? Very cut

[Ancalimë]

C'est un sable base agouti donc forcément moins foncé que sable base noire 

[Rustina]

Oui mais pour  coup je le trouvais vraiment clair, en mm tps c'est vrai que parfois les sables base noire peuvent être limite noir, (j'exagere un peu) une photo sur ton site mais je n'ai plus le nom en tête et je suis au boulot 

[Shita]

Yep it's 'double' burmese but agouti-based instead of black.

 

The same baby next to my black-based sable baby to compare:

 

[Ancalimë]

Niji était sable base noire. Mais il était chocolat foncé, très loin du noir.